The Great Penis Debate 0f 2011

On Nov. 16 we hosted a discussion about penises.  The plan was to summarize and refine the responses we received but that proved to be impossible.  There was no real consensus about erections other than yes, they probably should be covered if they happen if for no other reason than people expect you to.  I’m not even sure that was a consensus.  At the very least, you can read through the comments and maybe learn something about how men think about their penises!

Posted on Google+ as a forum for discussion of how the penis is viewed in nudist/naturist society and why an erection is such a big deal. Comments follow the introduction:

All Nudist  -  Nov 16, 2011  - 

The Penis. Every male’s first question about attending a nudist event is, “What if I get an erection?” The standard response is usually, “That’s unlikely to happen but if it does, cover it up or go in the water until it’s gone.” Right?The topic today relates to the oft-repeated idea that nudists/naturists do not view the human body as a sexual object, and see nudity as a natural state. If that is the case, why do we find an erect penis to be something to be hidden? Is it unnatural? Is it obscene? If it is accidental, is it sexual?Could it be that one who sees an erect penis or erect nipples as necessarily sexual is actually less of a ‘true’ nudist than one who sees them as a natural part of life?You can start with these thoughts and take this wherever it goes! Let’s be civil and respectful, ok? Have fun!
#nudist #naturist #nudism #naturism #allnudist

118 comments

All Nudist  -  Some other thoughts:Should erections be hidden? If so, why?

What is offensive about an erect penis?
Is an erection always a sign of arousal? If not, why is it considered ‘improper’?
Why are erect nipples ok? They result from many of the same causes as penises, should they also be hidden?
Does becoming aroused always mean that one is not a ‘true’ nudist? Is arousal unnatural?
Why are genital piercings different than others? Are they always sexually related?

Nov 16, 2011

John Andersen  -  Next on the agenda …. go yell “fire” in a crowded theater.

Nov 16, 2011

Fred Morris  -  Is this the official thread to discuss the infamous penis?

Nov 16, 2011

All Nudist  -  John – What are your thoughts? Discussing the idea of fire in a theater is not the same as yelling ‘Fire’.

Nov 16, 2011  -  Edit

Filber DaNude  -  As a noob to the culture i will be spying intently.

Nov 16, 2011

Roy Snell  -  An erection per se is not the problem but it is what the owner does with it that is cause for concern or offence.

Nov 16, 2011

Fred Morris  -  Roy, you can say it. If the owner proceeds to masturbate with that erection, it would be considered lewd and inappropriate behavior if done in a public setting or around minors.

Nov 16, 2011

Will Forest  -  I think it’s a standard line to say that it’s what the owner does with it that can be the cause for concern or offense. Probably many would agree.

But what if what the owner does with it is that he simply keeps doing what he was doing before he got it – he keeps on walking, or swimming, or weeding the garden? Is walking, swimming, or weeding while erect offensive? I’m assuming other people are around, or in the area.

Nov 16, 2011

Fred Morris  -  Of course not, walking around with an erection is not offensive. Playing with it for all the neighbors to see would be considered lewd.

Nov 16, 2011

Will Forest  -  See, I agree that just walking with an erection is not offensive. But I think many would disagree, and I’d like to know why.

Nov 16, 2011

Filber DaNude  -  This isn’t meant to be humorous, but what is the definition of erect? slightly engorged, above the horizontal? Do they make saltpeter supplements that could eliminate accidental arousal?

Nov 16, 2011

Will Forest  -  That’s a great question! There are so many stages along the scale of flaccid to completely erect, right?

Nov 16, 2011

Roy Snell  -  To continue walking along a nudist beach with an erection could be considered to be flaunting it which generally would not be acceptable. Continuing to remove weeds in the garden with an erection would probably not be considered to be flaunting it as the owner is occupied with his gardening work not with the fact that he has an erection. A lot depends on how the observer interprets the situation.

Nov 16, 2011

Roy Snell  -  An excellent point +Filber DaNude . Again, it depends on how the observer interprets the definition of erection.

Nov 16, 2011

Robert Sharp  -  Hi
I have been Living Without Clothes for 18 months now and during that time I think that I have re-integrated my penis as just another part of my body. It is no longer something to hide or something that means sex or something to be ashamed of. I am very happy with this arrangement, and more so I am not concerned about its size at all. I like it that my penis looks like something on a Greek Sculpture (small, that is). Sometimes I can feel it growing, but very rarely do I need to manage that, e.g. by leaving the room.Not sure I understand why talking about penises has to be talking about erections though. The more we accept it as part of ourselves (or partners, friends etc), whatever it gets up to, the less the problem perhaps. For example, I have always been a little bit of a dribbler, and without nasty underwear to mop it up, I have to do a little bit of management. That’s the way it is and its not something to be ashamed of. And overall I know I am far more hygienic now than I ever was when I just wrapped the problem in underwear.

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Nov 16, 2011

Bruce Kendall  -  Erect nipples can be caused by a chilling breeze, I doubt it is the same with a penis. A man can have an erection with no sign of erect nipples. An erect penis is a result of thoughts. It shows the man is not in the right frame of mind. A man getting an erection in the garden…hmm. If he continues to concentrate on gardening the erection will go away. The majority of women naturists prefer not to see an erection within a naturist environment. I assume if it was a gay group of naturist an erection would not be objectionable, but I can’t say for sure.

Nov 16, 2011

All Nudist  -  ”A lot depends on how the observer interprets the situation.”Excellent observation. The question is, how beholden are we to considering other’s interpretation of events? Is their idea of ‘right and wrong’ more valid than ours?

Nov 16, 2011  -  Edit

Fred Morris  -  Some people would be offended by the erection and if the male is well endowed that makes it even all the more offensive because it’s so “in your face”. No pun intended….I swear.

Nov 16, 2011

All Nudist  -  Bruce – Should we then make the assumption that gay nudists are more sexually oriented?

Nov 16, 2011  -  Edit

Roy Snell  -  +All Nudist I don’t believe anyone should be beholden to another person’s viewpoint however at the same time I do believe people should practice a degree of common courtesy to each other.

Nov 16, 2011

Nick K.D Chaleunphone  -  As an Intersex person, I don’t have to worry about penis issues because mines is so small, that it’s a micropenis and it get’s mistaken for an oversize clitoris

Nov 16, 2011

Will Forest  -  It may be very difficult for some people to consider penises as just another body part, like elbows or lips or toes, but Robert’s point is well made: “The more we accept it as part of ourselves (or partners, friends etc), whatever it gets up to, the less the problem perhaps.”

Nov 16, 2011

Bruce Kendall  -  +All Nudist I think it is a valid assumption until proven otherwise. My gay friends seem to be more sexually overt when other men are around especially other gays. It seems that this subject has come up with another naturist group that is largely populated by younger, under-educated, and non-experienced social naturists, they seem to think an erection is a normal male function. Well it is when ones thought gravitate toward sexual thoughts.

Nov 16, 2011

Will Forest  -  The younger the man is, the more likely an erection can be a normal male function unrelated to sexual thoughts.

Nov 16, 2011

Krystal Price  -  Being a relatively new naturist. I can’t say I’ve seen this as a problem. There are a bunch of men at the beach I go to that are slightly engorged and I am never offended. However there have been a few occasions where I have seen men with erections and each time they were masturbating while staring intently at me.This was extremely unnerving and, in my opinion, disrespectful. Seeing as I am a single woman at a beach where there are 60-70% men I would rather erections be kept to a minimum. Although at the beach it’s easy to walk in the cold water and let it subside. Even though men may do not choose this (and that’s their prerogative) for me/everyone to feel 100% comfortable I would hope ‘true’ naturists keep their erections in the bedroom.

Nov 16, 2011 (edited)+2

John Andersen  -  I’m still waiting for someone of the female persuasion to jump in and add some legitimacy to the conversation.

Nov 16, 2011

Krystal Price  -  How am I not a female? checks parts

Nov 16, 2011

Bruce Kendall  -  +Will Forest Yes Will, it can happen with younger males. But that does not mean something should not be done about it. As suggested in oh so many naturist articles. Babies learn not to wet their diapers.

Nov 16, 2011

Fred Morris  -  Krystal, I think John commented as you were just posting your comment. He posted just seconds after yours.

Nov 16, 2011 (edited)

All Nudist  -  I think that we can all agree that deliberately created erections are not acceptable in any mainstream socially nude environment. Overt sexual actions are illegal and should be viewed as such. Most nudist/naturist venues do not permit that behavior.Krystal’s experience demonstrates why cell phone cams can be useful. Send a pic to the cops, if possible.

Nov 16, 2011  -  Edit

+1

Bruce Kendall  -  +Krystal Price The difference and delay in posting can be because of geographic location on the net.

Nov 16, 2011

Krystal Price  -  @ Will Forest. I can’t speak for other women, but I know in my opinion if you’re at a nude beach/resort/etc. that you’d be silly to not expect to see a penis. I DO consider it to be like another body part. Because it is! They can also add interesting points to conversations (tattoos, tricks, piercings, etc) As a woman I don’t know why a penis would be offensive, even a semi stiff one. I like penises! The only time I’ve been offended by a penis is when I see guys masturbating and paying un wanted attention to me. If it’s not invited, please keep it in your pants, er, well you know what I mean…

Nov 16, 2011 (edited)

+3

Fred Morris  -  Sexual exhibitionism is what most are concerned about. Openly masturbating in front a total stranger just to get a rise out of them is what motivates them. They want the attention and the audience. “Hey, look at me”. It’s quite pathetic, actually. I ignore them unless they are totally bordering on harassment. Then I would say something.

Nov 16, 2011

Krystal Price  -  Bruce, thanks for that. I understand that he possibly didn’t see my comment, I was more making a joke.

Nov 16, 2011

All Nudist  -  We were at Mazo Beach one day and noticed a young man a little ways away kind of hiding behind an umbrella, playing with himself. I went over and nicely let him know that it was not appropriate at our beach. He was embarrassed, it was his first time and he though that was what nude beaches were all about!Common misconception, easily remedied that time but not so easily for the general public, alas.

Nov 16, 2011  -  Edit

Krystal Price  -  To be fair, I will also comment on the stiff nipple question also. I don’t feel like nipples are the same as a penis. While stiff nipples CAN be a sign of arousal it is most certainly not the case in majority of situations. As someone with constantly stiff nipples, I can say it MOST often is caused by chilly weather conditions, cold water, etc. Possibly an engorged clitoris can be compared apples to apples, but that’s not nearly as visible as a penis.

Nov 16, 2011 (edited)

Charles Frank  -  A normal healthy male get several erections a day for no reason whether you have clothes on or not. I live in a nudist resort and it is not really not an issue unless you are playing with it or otherwise bringing attention to yourself, you can try to cover it or take a dip but sometimes nothing is available. If it happens ignore it and it will go away as fast as you got it.

Nov 16, 2011

Nick K.D Chaleunphone  -  That’s why as an Intersex person, i don’t have the penis issue that Men have

Nov 16, 2011 (edited)

Bruce Kendall  -  Can we generally agree that an erect penis is not consider good manners in polite mixed gender naturist society, and that a man that continues to encourage an erection through any means is out of bounds?

Nov 16, 2011

Bruce Kendall  -  +Nick K.D Chaleunphone yes we have heard you on this, thank you.

Nov 16, 2011

Krystal Price  -  Nick, can you explain more about what you mean by intersex?

Nov 16, 2011 (edited)

Wade Wade  -  Based on how it happens to me, I wouldn’t even consider it something abnormal or wrong if it just happened and you’re not paying attention to it. I know I can get one for no reason at all as soon as I undress from being dressed for work or somewhere else I had to be dressed for. I also get one just from stretching from being very tired. Also the cold doesn’t affect it or make it go away either. It just goes away on it’s own in time. Normally I never get one from sexual thoughts and in a nudist environment, sexual thoughts normally don’t happen anyway. For me, erections just happen for no reason at all and if I think about it and trying to make it go away, that will actually just make it a longer time for it to go away than to just let time run it’s course and let it go away on it’s own. Sometimes I just relate it to being happy and not board. However, if I think about it so much by thinking I have to make it go away, then it’s just going to take that much longer for it to go away.

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Nov 16, 2011

+1

Bruce Kendall  -  +Wade Wade In a naturist environment he trick is not to think about it, think about something else. Go in the pool, lay down on a towel, read a book, put a towel on your lap.

Nov 16, 2011

Wade Wade  -  Exactly what I mean.

Nov 16, 2011

+1

Bruce Kendall  -  No wonder we have so few women in the naturist movement. I wonder how many women would be scare off during their first visit if all the men were hanging around with a nice erection. “Oh don’t worry lady it’s just a sign they are happy to see you!”, said the resort owner.

Nov 16, 2011

+2

Will Forest  -  Right – sometimes it’s the anticipation of how good it feels to be nude outside that can bring on an erection when I’m undressing.

Nov 16, 2011

Bruce Kendall  -  see ya’ll…bedtime on my side of the world.

Nov 16, 2011

Eric Paparatto  -  My feeling is that it ought to be regarded on the same level as a farting and burping.If someone is laying on a beach towel and happens to let loose a loud burp, it happens. Most of us would ignore it and think little of it. If someone is walking down the beach constantly belching, I think people are perfectly justified in asking that person to control themselves. If someone is walking up to people and deliberately to belching for the sake of belching then you’re completely justified in asking them to leave the party.The onus on nudists is to react to erections as they would any other rude behavior, rather than treating it as a special case that warrants a freak out.

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Nov 16, 2011

+3

Fulltime Nudist  -  OK…here is my 2 cents worth on this topic, speaking as a woman:We live at a nudist park and see many, many penis’s during the season. Most of them are not erect. But, there are a few that have new penile implants and at times they are more rigid than others. There are also quite a few that sunbath with a semi erection but its flat against the body-not pointing away from it. Speaking of these men-none of them masturbate to get that way. It just happens naturally or their inserts are new. No big deal.There are also men that position themselves where they have a clear view of the women (or men) and then proceed to jerk off. When I see it, I will usually make them aware that I can see them-with one of those looks that say ‘HEY! I see you…STOP doing that”. That usually stops them from continuing.But, some just stop for a moment and then start back again. Then I sit up and say something, like-”That kind of behavior is NOT allowed here. This is a family park.” A towel is quickly placed over the hand and penis and they continue under cover. That’s when I get up and jump into my golf cart and tell the park owner. She usually asks the person to leave and they are banned from ever returning again.This doesn’t happen very often. I would say maybe 2 times each year.My take on penis’s in general? I don’t have an opinion really. Its just a part of the male anatomy. Just like ears or toe nails. Some are bigger than others. They come in all diff shapes and colors. And some have piercings. The man attached to that penis is what counts, in my eyes. Don’t get me wrong-we all look at the whole body when we first see someone. Its what everyone does. Even if they won’t admit it. But most nudists look you in the eye when they speak. I like that.Hubby and I usually speak to most of the visitors that show up during our season. We have met quite a few people from all over the world. A good attitude, honesty, and communication is what I see when I speak to men. Not their penis’s.

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Nov 16, 2011

+4

Will Forest  -  A little historical perspective – for some ancient societies, erections were positive signs, like today’s happy face or thumbs-up! And they were the source of the word “fascinate,” from the fascinus or phallus.In those cases, the erection in question was usually a symbol, maybe a statue or an amulet. Even so, I’d prefer to think that an (actual) erection in a nudist setting, if unprovoked, can be understood as a metabolic “plus” sign, nature running its course, blood flowing through veins, etc. I think we all agree that the provoked erections are what is unwelcome in naturist settings.

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Nov 16, 2011

+1

Fred Morris  -  Well said Eric. It’s the power of the penis that gets some people rattled.

Nov 16, 2011

+1

Wade Wade  -  I don’t really have a problem with it happening anyway, but when it does for me, it’s not for reasons of sexual thoughts, and I think that it doesn’t really matter to me if someone else has one too as long as they’re not touching themselves or anything like that. I would just consider an erection another act of nature. If it happens, it happens. If someone is intentionally trying to flaunt it, then that would be considered inappropriate, not the act of just having one.

Nov 16, 2011 (edited)

+1

Filber DaNude  -  So by my understanding from a noob’s vantage point is that as long as there’s a hands off policy, unintentional states are mostly ignored?

Nov 16, 2011

Charles Frank  -  It is also hard to control if the take Viagra the day before or Cialis low dose daily, but like someone said unintentional erections are more like semi-erections or slightly-engorged

Nov 16, 2011

Nick K.D Chaleunphone  -  Exactly that’s why I believe Nudism is a Male dominated lifestyle

Nov 16, 2011 (edited)

Fulltime Nudist  -  I disagree Nick. If they are part of a male + female partnership, its usually the male that suggests it but the female is the one that makes the final decision whether to accept or dismiss it.We have talked with quite a few couples that say this. During our first visit here at our nudist park where we live, I wanted to buy a weekend place that day! Hubby suggested we wait till our second visit…and we did indeed buy one that second time. LOLAnd now we live here.

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Nov 16, 2011

+3

Charles Frank  -  My wife loves living the nudist lifestyle as much as I do

Nov 16, 2011

Eric Paparatto  -  It’s male dominated because of our culture. Women are taught to be particularly protective and self conscious of their bodies. Men aren’t.

Nov 16, 2011

+2

Krystal Price  -  +Fulltime Nudist I wasn’t aware that there was some thing as penile implants. Most interesting. I guess you see it all living at a nudist park!

Nov 16, 2011

Roy Snell  -  Generally if a man with an erection doesn’t make a fuss of it, others also won’t make a fuss either.

Nov 16, 2011

+1

Krystal Price  -  Eric, you have a point. All the women I ask to come with me to the nude beach are afraid of what other people might think about their body. And no matter that I tell them it’s not like that, they won’t budge. Most people say “well if I looked like you…I’d go”. I think if people tried it, they’d be comfortable immediately, no matter how their body looks

Nov 16, 2011

+4

Will Forest  -  A plug – please forgive, it’s apropos: Christopher Ross is a brave college philosophy professor who starts a nude course on a college campus. He gets some surprising support, but ultimately it’s a misunderstanding over an erection that leads to a sexual harassment allegation threatening his job and his future. What happens?? Read Co-ed Naked Philosophy to find out!https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/85955

Nov 16, 2011

Nick K.D Chaleunphone  -  It’s male dominated because of culture and society and because of that, it’s much easier for men to be nude than for a woman. That’s why for women you have an epidemic of women who are body conscious because of what society tells them. That’s why for nudism, it’s mostly Male dominated.

Nov 16, 2011

Fulltime Nudist  -  Hi Krystal…I am Debbi, Nice to meet you. The owner of our park is a breast cancer survivor. And we have many folks with scars that would normally scare the begeezies out of reg folks. Plus tats that were done when a 60 year old thought it was cool back in the day. It wasn’t.But you know what? We see them the first time and then get to know the person behind the scars/bumps/weight/and what ever else you can think of. We are all open for everyone to see past those physical issues that the textile world teaches us (at very early ages) to cover up.Just look at TV commercials. Age spots are awful to have! Wear spanx to cover fat! Use this wrinkle cream! Don’t wear that-it makes you look fat! Be skinny! Be young!I say pooh. We are what we are. I am over fifty and not exactly like Twiggy and I don’t care. My friends and family love me no matter what I look like. I accept who I am and I accept all other folks as they are, too. That is my nudist credo.And no Nick…the nudist culture is not dominated by males. Do you have data to back up that statement? If so-I would like to see it.

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Nov 16, 2011

+3

All Nudist  -  Any thoughts about genital piercings? Or piercings in general? Some places don’t allow genital piercings, and I’ve heard that some frown on any other than the standard earrings, though I don’t see how ears are any less sexy than eyebrows, noses, or cheeks.

Nov 16, 2011  -  Edit

Krystal Price  -  Hi Debbi. That sounds like a perfect world. I definitely want to retire there!

Nov 16, 2011

Eric Paparatto  -  +Fulltime Nudist The male-female ratio in this thread is data point one. The male-female ratio at most any beach or club that doesn’t use a quota is data point number two. I’m not sure on what basis you could argue that women aren’t a minority in this lifestyle?

Nov 16, 2011

+1

Filber DaNude  -  Screw waiting for retirement…..I need to get the support to start a community in northern Idiana lol.

Nov 16, 2011

Eric Paparatto  -  +All Nudist Nudists are all about body freedom so long as you only do with your body what they think you should do with your body! I’m often amazed by the amount of intolerance that can be shown by a group of people who should theoretically understand tolerance better than most. The club nearest to me actually has a no body jewelry policy which I know for a fact deters at least a few younger nudists from ever going there. And for what? Because some members can’t evolve beyond a 1950′s sensibility?

Nov 16, 2011

+1

Krystal Price  -  calm down courtney. Is it people from this topic? I had people add me too, but only people from this discussion seeing as I have only had <24hrs on Goggle + I’m not surprised. It seems like google + is a mixture between Facebook and Twitter. When you comment on things, people can add you because they think you have interesting things to say. I would take it as a compliment. Sorry for getting off topic. Let the Penis discussion continue (never thought I’d say that, LOL)

Nov 16, 2011

+2

All Nudist  -  Courtney – That’s the nature of G+; most of us have had that problem. Just ignore or block them. Unlike FB, people can search for others by using keywords that you use in your profile, postings, photos, or comments. They can follow you unless you ‘block’ them. Feel free to do so.You can direct your postings by adding known friends to circles, then posting only to those circles, never publicly. No one else can see them then.Don’t give up on G+ yet!

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Nov 16, 2011  -  Edit

All Nudist  -  Eric – Did they explain why they have that policy? What’s the logic behind it? Tats were also frowned upon not so long ago at some places.

Nov 16, 2011  -  Edit

Filber DaNude  -  hmmmm…..I can’t see any posts by a Courtney. She may have already figured out the blocking thing. LOL

Nov 16, 2011

+1

All Nudist  -  She wasn’t supposed to block EVERYONE! Well, I hope she’s still watching and perhaps she’ll decide to come back when things calm down. Can’t blame her, it would be scary to feel like the focus of so much undesired attention. G+ really could use a bit more control over that following thing. Perhaps a setting that would render one ‘unsearchable’ or ‘unfollowable’ when desired.

Nov 16, 2011  -  Edit

Filber DaNude  -  Id like to think i haven’t done anything to offend anyone. I’m to shy to be crude lol

Nov 16, 2011

+2

Eric Paparatto  -  I can’t speak first hand to it (the one member I brought up the subject with when I was there agreed it was stupid). The only source I have as to why the policy is in place was covered here:http://bit.ly/s8BUYZ

Nov 16, 2011

Fulltime Nudist  -  +Eric Paparatto are you really basing your facts on G+ and what you have personally seen?First and foremost-G+ is relatively new. Hence the lack of women participating. The numbers will go up.Second-I don’t know what clubs you go to but every single nudist club/resort that I have been to, was about even with males vs females on the weekends or holidays. *During the week, mostly males show up during working hours and a few females. But they don’t represent the entire population of nudists.

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Nov 16, 2011

+1

Eric Paparatto  -  +Fulltime Nudist Well you can’t criticize anecdotal evidence and then offer nothing but anecdotal evidence as a refutation. Particularly as I don’t believe any scientific survey has ever been done, so really anecdotes are all that can be offered as evidence. In my experience, nudists are a mix of single guys and male-female couples. Single women are virtually non-existent, or at the very least get dwarfed by the number of single guys. Plus the beaches have a sizable gay crowd that further imbalances the ratio. The only events I’ve been to where the ratio is anything close to equal are ones where they rather deliberately gender-balance the invite list.

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Nov 16, 2011

Krystal Price  -  @ Filber: It’s not you it was your penis! (just kidding)

Nov 16, 2011

Filber DaNude  -  +Krystal Price oh, i see….that’s what we’re doing? =)

Nov 16, 2011

Krystal Price  -  Ha ha!

Nov 16, 2011

Fulltime Nudist  -  Actually Eric….here at our park we have single women that live here full time. And no single men. And not because they are barred from living here.Yes, I agree. I think its all perspective. Until we can get any kind of true data.Sorry to sound so harsh today. Didn’t mean to offend. Still friends?

Nov 16, 2011

All Nudist  -  Hmm, missed something there… Anyway, Eric – Good article you referred to. I agree that the ‘older generation’ is likely slow to accept change, and see piercings as sexual (which they can be) and therefore inappropriate. However, let’s not forget that over 99% of the world sees simple nudity in the same way!That brings us back to the question of whether or not the image invoked by an erect penis, or piercings for that matter, as sexual is more of a matter of the perception of the viewer than it is an indicator of arousal or intent on the part of the ‘owner’.If that is the case, then it is the viewer who has a problem separating sexuality from nudity, not the person who the viewer perceives to be acting sexually. Anyone can find something sexual in just about anything if that’s where their mind lives. A ‘dirty mind’ will always see dirt.Not so, folks?

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Nov 16, 2011  -  Edit

+1

Filber DaNude  -  +All Nudist it just sounds dirty when you say it…….

Nov 16, 2011

All Nudist  -  ”Susan Weaver, the president of AANR, has her nipples pierced. “

Nov 16, 2011  -  Edit

Fred Morris  -  Even in the last couple of weeks, from my personal experience, there has been evidence of a generational gap between young nudists and older, veteran nudists from yesteryear. Times they are a changin………

Nov 16, 2011

+1

Fulltime Nudist  -  Only a few of us old farts are unbendable Fred. The rest of us are pretty flexible.

Nov 16, 2011

Fred Morris  -  Debbi……you don’t say Seriously, I know older folks are set in their ways and they have their beliefs. That’s fine. But don’t expect everyone to feel the same way, especially younger people who are naturally more open and now are in a world that is more diverse today than it was 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago.

Nov 16, 2011

+1

Roy Snell  -  When on a nude beach the body will function the same as when it is clothed. This may result at times in an erection. The only difference between a nude beach and a clothed beach is the presence of clothes. Therefore, as a rule of thumb, if it is ok to do with clothes on in public, it is ok to do with clothes off in public. Getting an erection in public when clothed happens and it is acceptable. Therefore it is acceptable to get an erection on a nude beach.

Nov 16, 2011

+6

All Nudist  -  So, should we expect a man who has an unintended and non-sexual erection to cover it out of consideration for those whose worldview causes them to see it as sexual, and therefore offensive?Or should we expect those who persist in seeing sex where sex isn’t to be considerate enough to mind their own business and try to control their own lustful thoughts?

Nov 16, 2011  -  Edit

+1

Rick Orlando  -  The difference is an erection is a marker that the person, voluntarily or involuntarily, is in a sexually aroused state. Such a state is inappropriate in non-sexual social situations. Worse yet, that the person is very likely aware of this condition and by not being discreet about it, is signifying that they don’t care if others notice. This is inconsiderate because like it or not many people aren’t comfortable around others who are obviously aroused and are likely to have have other things on their mind.Personally it doesn’t bother me, but I’d be more considerate.

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Nov 16, 2011

Nude, Renewed  -  Great conversation. As usual, I don’t have a lot of answers, but I hope I ask good questions. I think there is a tendency among naturists to see ourselves as somehow “different people” when we’re nude together. And, to some extent, maybe we are. I know I’m more relaxed, comfortable, and open to conversation. But I remain, essentially, an introvert. And everything else that’s true about me when I’m clothed is still true. So it’s a bit untrue to say that our naturist selves are very different from our textile selves.And I think that explains a lot of reactions to penises. Many of us don’t care to see them, discuss them, or even really think about them when we’re clothed. Why would that change when we’re nude? If anything, being nude and seeing more of them – meaning both a larger number, and more of it is exposed – would reinforce the feelings we already have. Some of us don’t have a problem with penises when we’re clothed, so being nude and seeing them doesn’t make that much of a difference. And some of us – myself included – just don’t think about penises much at all, whether clothed or otherwise. (As far as I’m concerned: yes, I have one, and I use it for what it’s useful for. Nothing particularly noteworthy there.)Maybe things would be different if the clothed world didn’t have such complicated feelings about genitalia. But that’s not the world we live in. Look at all the euphemisms people use to avoid even saying the word “penis.” People just don’t want to talk about it. As naturists, we should be more able to talk about penises (and testicles, and breasts, and clitorises, and everything else.) But I hear references to “dicks” and “cocks” as much as I hear “penises” in naturist circles. Is it because, as I said, we’re not all that different nude than clothed? Is it because we’re trying to respect other people’s wishes not to hear about it? (Not such a bad thing to do – existing together means we have to share some respect for other’s sensibilities.) Is it because we really don’t believe all the stuff we say about naked bodies just being naked bodies and not being intrinsically sexual?I think, ultimately, the thing that’s going to move it forward is more discussions exactly like this one. And not just here online, but in the real world as well. Maybe we can come to some sort of mutual understanding of these complicated opinions about our genitals. Maybe it’s neither the root of all evil, nor the most important thing on a man. Maybe, like Freud and the cigar, sometimes an erection is just an erection. Maybe sometimes it’s purely sexual. Maybe it is, like the rest of the body that we claim to celebrate and accept, just part of who we are.

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Nov 16, 2011

Nude, Renewed  -  As for piercings… yes, a lot of them have sexual purposes, but assuming that people only get them for sexual reasons is a lot like, oh, assuming that people only go nude for sexual reasons. (See what I did there?) Let’s judge people on their actions and character rather than what they choose to put on, or through, their bodies, shall we?

Nov 16, 2011

+2

Shane Steinkamp  -  Now that I’m off work, I’ll stir the pot… This entire discussion is a study in descriptive relativism. +Fulltime Nudist‘s comment is a good place to ask a few questions.”That kind of behavior is NOT allowed here. This is a family park.”What does that mean? “This is a family park.”? Well, it depends entirely on your subjective opinion. There is no solid definition. “It’s for the sake of the children!”, is always a fallacious argument in my opinion. (That’s fallacious as in fallacy, and not fellatious as in fellatio in case you were wondering.)Large portions of the general public would certainly say, “You can’t go topless here!” or “You can’t wear that thong here!” or “You can’t go nude here!” because, “This is a family park!” And to them that would be reasonable.The majority of persons participating in this discussion wouldn’t see it that way because they’ve learned to ask the question, “What’s the harm? How are children harmed by seeing another member of their own species as they naturally exist?” The answer of course is, “They aren’t.”You’d have to ask that question all along the way to get any real sense of where the line might exist – if one exists at all. How are children harmed by seeing a penis? An erect penis? A man masturbating? A female masturbating? Two people kissing? Two people making love?+Roy Snell‘s lucid reasoning seems appropriate to me, but still relies on the age old, “community standards” that keeps naturists and nudists trapped in their homes, parks, and slivers of beach.There is no right or wrong answer because the line you draw is entirely based on your subjective experience and your subjective judgement.

I tend to follow a simple rule: If I can’t clearly articulate how something harms me directly, then it isn’t any of my business.

“Because I don’t want to see that!”, is never a valid argument.

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Nov 16, 2011

+2

Nick Malyon  -  Having seen a crowd full of people cheering a rhino with a raging erection at a zoo, I can only conclude that an erection isn’t considered automatically sinister in nature, so why should it be any different here? Like others have said, it’s your behaviour that should be judged, not your body. Erections happen throughout the day for all sorts of reasons and they are a normal function of the male body. It would be unnatural if they didn’t occur.Just because someone has an erection, it doesn’t mean they find the current situation sexual. If they start doing the ‘windmill’ or spying from the bushes, there is a problem. If they’re behaving normally, there shouldn’t be.It’s really down to if you trust the intentions of that person and their reasons for being there.

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Nov 16, 2011

+1

Fred Morris  -  Shane, stir the pot, stir the pot. Keeps me on my toes. Family Park by definition means when kids are involved. So naturally, lewdness is deeply frowned upon because there are minors on the premises. Which begs the questions, what if a naturist father has an erection at home? Would that be called lewdness? Or is that just Dad being “Dad”? Erections are natural and it’s not something to be ashamed of but guys are trained to keep that “erection” hidden because people find it “offensive”. How can something natural be okay in private but offensive in public?

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Nov 16, 2011

+3

All Nudist  -  Rick – I understand what you’re saying, but is “an erection is a marker that the person, voluntarily or involuntarily, is in a sexually aroused state” an accurate statement?Is it always a marker of sexual arousal? What about a full bladder? Is that sexual? How about when there is contact with material, objects, the ground, even a breeze? Those reactions are involuntary and perfectly normal. What is shameful and deserving of secrecy about that?We keep coming back to the idea that a penis is somehow a shameful object and needs to be ‘controlled’ or hidden? Why?As far as being ‘considerate’ of others’ chosen visual preferences, should we hide our fat and scars also? What about pimples? They’re pretty disgusting to look at. Does my ‘right’ to not see pimples trump your ‘right’ to enjoy nature, naturally?Courtesy is essential in human relations, and to be applauded. But we’re talking about attitudes here. The attitude that some people have that a penis is a special part of one gender’s body that attracts attention from those who claim to pay NO attention to ANY body part, and therefore must be hidden from their view.How can nudists claim sexual neutrality in the presence of nudity when they can’t even look at a penis without thinking of sex?Jes’ wonderin’.

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Nov 16, 2011  -  Edit

+1

Shane Steinkamp  -  +Fred Morris I follow you, but now you have to define ‘lewdness’. By some people’s definition, a woman breast-feeding her child is engaged in a lewd act. By some people’s definition simple nudity is ‘lewd’. In some countries, a woman with uncovered hair is being ‘lewd’. I’m only pointing out that everyone draws their own line and that line is arbitrary.You could make a good case by defining the differences between states of being and behavior, but even then your rules are going to be arbitrary.

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Nov 16, 2011

+1

Adam Cerico  -  I am jumping in pretty late here, and don’t wish to linger on an arguement that thankfully got overlooked. But as a gay nudist I did not like the assumption that gay men are into nudism for more sexual reasons than others!Perhaps gay men are accepting of the ‘nature’ in the natural non-sexual erection. Though I would actually feel as equally shy if I had an erection amongst a group of mixed sex, and sexuality, people as I would an all gay-men group.

Nov 16, 2011

Shane Steinkamp  -  +All Nudist ”How can nudists claim sexual neutrality in the presence of nudity when they can’t even look at a penis without thinking of sex?” – Because in our civilization there is a deep seated fear of sexuality. That’s true among textiles and nudists alike. I have met a lot of people – textiles and nudists alike – that have a real problem with pleasure. I think it’s culturally ubiquitous because nudists don’t seem to be any less hung up about sex than textiles generally speaking.Personally, I was a virgin until I got married, and I have no interest in sex with anyone but my wife. I realize, however, that I have made that arbitrary decision based on my subjective experiences. I can’t say that my lifestyle is ‘right’ and someone else’s is ‘wrong’, or that my lifestyle is ‘better’ or ‘more moral’, because all of those judgements are relative and subjective. There is no right answer.

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Nov 16, 2011 (edited)

Eric Paparatto  -  For the record, I agree with +Shane Steinkamp.”Family Values” is an Orwellian term that has nothing to do with families and everything to do with puritanical anti-sex values. If I could wave my hand and make sure none ever used it again except in relation to public policies that actually substantively support families and children like healthcare, education, welfare etc, I would.But I digress. Point being, mainstream society draws an arbitrary line where one side is “decent” and “safe for children”, and the other side isn’t. Nudity traditionally falls on the wrong side of that line. Nudists obviously disagree, but where nudists draw the line is equally arbitrary. No one is hurt by someone openly masturbating, or by a couple fucking on the beach, or any other open sexual display, any more than someone gets hurt by the site of a topless woman.I think maintaining an environment for social nudity which is nonsexual is certainly worthwhile, but it’s worth keeping in mind just how arbitrary our preferences are when discussing these things. They’re just that, preferences, not absolute truths or immutable laws of the universe that are obvious and should be shared by everyone.

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Nov 16, 2011

+3

All Nudist  -  Adam – I was surprised that the idea of gay men having a different way of looking at social nudity slipped past without comment. It’s a commonly held belief, but still, I expected some objection to the stereotype.

Nov 16, 2011  -  Edit

All Nudist  -  Bravo Eric. Our determination of what is lewd or improper is arbitrary and highly subjective. Exactly.It appears to me that some here are justifying our attitudes by saying that’s just the way it is, while others are looking for deeper meanings of WHY we think the way we do.Personally, the ‘why’ is what interests me the most because it is what affects ‘the way it is’. If we can understand the ‘why’ and see it for the fallacy that it is, then perhaps we can shed the attitudes that tie us to old, poor thinking habits.As was pointed out, seeing things that we don’t want to see cannot hurt us, only upset us. I want to know why it upsets us, and why we think we somehow have a right not to be upset by things that upset us only because we choose to let them.We create our own monsters then frighten ourselves with them. Why, when we know they are fake?

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Nov 16, 2011  -  Edit

Shane Steinkamp  -  We get upset because we chose to. Nobody can offend you without your permission – but we have been conditioned to be offended. If, for instance, I type the word ‘fuck’, then quite a number of people are going to have a strong reaction to that. In reality, though, it’s just letters like any other letters, and a word on this page like any other word on this page.We have been conditioned that there are ‘bad’ words. There’s actually no such thing. Every word is equal. It’s the intention and idea behind the words that supply some meaning, but the reaction we have to words is entirely subjective.Shame is a lie that someone tells you about yourself – and you believe it. We have all been conditioned to think of certain things as ‘normal’ that don’t make any sense at all – but we hold those beliefs strongly and it’s hard to let them go.

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Nov 16, 2011

Adam Cerico  -  I am sure some gay men would argue with me… perhaps there are environments where social nudity is a sexual activity for some gay men. But not all!The question is whether this culture may only have arisen due to gay behaviour being rejected by main-stream society for so long.I personally do not like that aspect of gay culture, and come to naturism without sex in mind.

Nov 16, 2011

Shane Steinkamp  -  In my experience, I have been propositioned for gay sex much more often than I have been propositioned for any other kind of sex, but I cannot say that this is universal.

Nov 16, 2011

Adam Cerico  -  I don’t deny many gay men seek out sexual encounters, but it doesn’t mean that nudity and sex cannot be considered seperate in the minds of gay men.I have socialised nude with other gay men, and sex was never a consideration. Others have said that men have been seen masturbating in nudist areas. Perhaps the problem is lack of ‘education’ on what is acceptable or expected within the gay community.

Nov 16, 2011

Bruce Kendall  -  Eric generally I agree with you. I have been in the jungle with native South American tribes and erections or having sex within public view is a personal matter. Some times the people involved prefer privacy and some times they don’t. Some will build walls around their hut and some will not. I remember one time we entered a village and a young woman walked across the main path about 30 yards in front of us. She was topless, but when she walked back she had a t-shirt on. Some natives know what “civilized people” are about.It would have been a great experiment if all in our group would have been topless.Can you imagine living in such a village? The whole family live in a one room thatched roof hut, with or with out walls. during the night Mom and Dad decide to have intercourse. One of the children stir in their sleep, look up to see Mom and Dad, they think nothing of it and go back to sleep. (Wow, if this happened in our society the parents wold be hauled off to jail.) People in the village don’t have intercourse in public, semi-private yes, but not in the middle of the village. And men have erections at inappropriate times, either they go away or he goes to his wife and takes care of it. If he was waking through the village with a full blown steel hard erection, other women might snicker and comment that he needs to go see his wife.It would be great to live like natives, without any social conditioning created by our mass media. But we live in a “civilized society” and we are still governed by it. Though naturists are less governed by it, but we are still influenced by it. There is social etiquette in any society, and societal etiquette can change over time. But it should happen at a pace that is accepted by that society, and not just because a few people feel they need it.I firmly believe that when scientists go into the jungle to study aboriginals they should approach them dressed as they are. That is if the natives are nude the scientists would be nude also, sure they can bring all their equipment but not their clothes. Just by wearing clothes the scientists change the natives, not so with the cameras or equipment.

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Nov 16, 2011

+2

Adam Cerico  -  Agreed, nude scientists!

Nov 16, 2011

Bruce Kendall  -  +Adam Cerico I believe you were looking for this information:
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/7191188
http://www.monkeyforestubud.com/temple_bathing.html

Nov 16, 2011

Adam Cerico  -  +Bruce Kendall Thanks for the tip!

Nov 17, 2011

All Nudist  -  Thank you all for your comments and thoughts! This was a very interesting conversation with a lot of different points of view presented. I’m so pleased that folks felt safe to have their say without fear of ridicule or anger. Truly, an adult conversation.I’m sot so sure we solved all the problems of the world, but discussing our feelings is always a good start towards understanding. If only the textile world could have been involved and have seen that nudists are not a bunch of hedonistic crazies, but actually thoughtful individuals with concerns and opinions just like everyone else.Again, thank you for your participation. Judging by our stats, we may have had a pretty good size non-commenting audience that hopefully learned a thing of two about how other nudists feel about this issue!I can think of a couple of other hot-button topics that might be addressed in the future; let’s do this again sometime!

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Nov 17, 2011  -  Edit

+1

Charles Frank  -  On the practical side an erection comes in handy when you are carrying all your stuff to the car, how many times have you said “I Only Have 2 Hands”
LOL …. Just Kidding…. Enjoy Being Naked.

Nov 17, 2011

All Nudist  -  Doorbells, Charles. Carrying grocery bags…

Nov 17, 2011  -  Edit

Andy Nude UK  -  Because the attitude of having an erection in a nudist setting, was seen as something that should be hidden if it happened, I stopped calling myself a naturist/nudist. Naturism and Nudism is about body acceptance and clearly, having an erection is seen in a way that isn’t body acceptance. I now just class myself as someone who just likes to be naked/nude.Regarding if the erection is sexual or non sexual, that should not matter. Again due to body acceptance and appreciation of somebody else’s naked body, as long as the erection isn’t being masturbated when in a situation when this is not acceptable, then it shouldn’t matter if the erection is brought on by sexual thoughts/sights/feelings or non sexual due to natural bodily movements/breeze/water etc

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Nov 18, 2011 (edited)

+2

Rupert Hill  -  This whole idea about hiding an erection was something that’s kept me from attending or joining a nudist resort. It’s as if an erection is bad, or that it’s bad to be a man. Maybe the resorts should only have women or castrated men. It’s a stupid rule and I think most people in the younger generations would agree. Now, I’m not talking about erection in a sexual way. I’m talking about just any other situation. We can voluntarily flex a finger because there is a bone in it, but we can’t look at our erections and say “sit” or “shrink down, you’re bad”. Erections show that we have a healthy circulatory system. Non-erections or erectile dysfunction can mean possible heart disease.

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Nov 24, 2011 (edited)

All Nudist  -  Rupert – You’re right; erections DO ha[pen to pop up now and then, all on their own as many here have said. It’s also true that erections at nudist events are extremely rare, and really no big deal if not flaunted.This discussion was mainly about the psychology of WHY unintended erections should offend any true nudist. We all know they happen, we’re not particularly interested in penises as nudists in that setting, and they go away if they’re ignored.So why do we (nudists in general) have a problem with them, or even feel that they are inappropriate and should be hidden?Well, it’s not really a big problem, folks don’t really get THAT upset over them, and there’s a zillion social/mental reasons we are as we are, so that’s just the way it is. No big answers, just human nature.About YOU and your concerns; if that’s the reason you haven’t gone to a nudist place, it’s not a good enough reason. Maybe the biggest reason guys are afraid to try it, but not really a big deal at all. Honest.Did you read all the comments above? Do it and you will see a lot of folks expressing opinions about the subject, but every one of them attends these events and has a great time! We’ve all either had that stray stiffy or have not, it doesn’t matter. Nudist are the most accepting group of people you’ll ever meet, and a hard-on isn’t going to terrify anyone as long as you don’t run around showing it off to a bunch or folks that just don’t care!Just behave in the same polite, considerate manner you would at any public event and you’ll do just fine!

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Nov 24, 2011  -  Edit

Tony Dimmick  -  This seems to be a rattler of cages. First and foremost in what I want to say, no there is no standard of thought. So for those who say things like “we all agree” let me point out that if we all already had this figured out and agreed upon then we wouldn’t be discussing it. It is by discussion that we come to understand what those who are participating in the discussion agree or disagree on. A bit of introduction follows.As a person, I was born with male anatomy, but over the last decade or so I have gone through a mental transition of discarding social stereotypes that lump people into one of two categories, male and female. If asked in an official matter such as legal documents I look for the thirdgender option, and have been thrilled to come across it once, but lacking that I select male.Also, I am a pagan. In my experience the pagans I have been acquainted with have a rather different stance on the human body, particularly the genitals. Reaching back to ancient roots where fertility of crop and humans both was one of the most important issues of the people, the erect penis or engorged labia were seen as sexual, and there was nothing bad about sexually excited genitals. The difference we have in this modern age was reflected in that the one chance I was able to take part in a skyclad (clothesfree) ritual group; it was adults only due to sexuality being an aspect of the magick taking place. The Great Rite was done via the standard symbolism of chalice and dagger, but it was expected that a room of naked bodies could have the result of erect penises, and that we as socially mature adult pagans we felt that it was not a horrible thing if we males admired our counterparts to such a degree that resulted in our anatomy becoming engorged (or vise versa for that matter, though it may have been less visible).We as western society have an unspoken agreement that there is something horrible about sexuality in any form, and in an effort to protect the innocence of children from this nameless horror we have ridiculously attempted to hide things such as breasts and genitals from view. Similarly, I find it strange that there is an unspoken agreement that men do not compliment one another on, shall I say, their good taste in women. It is my opinion (and anyone is welcome to disagree with this with the understanding that disagreeing with one point does not invalidate all I have to say) this comes from a combination of feminism (perhaps falsely accused) of disallowing this, combined with an uneasy feeling that such comments might indicate that the two males having similar enough tastes might mean that there is a potential threat to the relationship of the one being complimented. To that extent, there was a rule in the skyclad group I was a part of: no trolling in the group for dates. This rule was without exception, the group was by invite only, and normally only established couples were invited with VERY rare exception. Body talk was off limits, in or out of the rituals; with fellow members, you DID NOT talk about someone else’s body with anyone else, and you did not talk with someone about their body or yours who was not your significant other.Besides these few rules, there was an unspoken agreement that nobody (male or female) masturbated in the mutually skyclad environment, so when an erection (or engorged labia) occurred, the participants would mentally acknowledge that this was a positive thing that added to the energy of the magick taking place, that it was not a lewd act or a threat to anyone’s relationship. This was not a thing just out of the blue. We didn’t just take off our clothes and have these understood rules in place automatically, we as a group discussed these issues and feelings ahead of time, and came to the conclusions with our clothes on. After that, we found ourselves confident and comfortable in the unclothed presence of one another.I think, also, there is a part of this subject that is being avoided. People are paranoid, though for the sake of this discussion I’m going to point out that the meaning of “paranoid” as I understand it is to guess what others are thinking and planning, positive or negative. A hypothetical and rhetorical question I pose: Have you ever thought someone was watching you, based on seeing their eyes meet yours every time you looked? Have you ever caught yourself being the one who is watching the other, because you thought they were watching you? These questions lead to a darker place that nobody wants to acknowledge, so I will. First is the assumption that a man having an erection is an indication that he is thinking of sex. In younger males this is rarely the case, but it is more apparent that it is a matter of distress to them because their complaint of it reaches the ears of parents and school nurses. Adult males are more mature about erections, and are less prone to be embarrassed by an unwarranted erection, thus you hear less about frequent adult erections without cause, but as a healthy twenty-six-year-old I can assure you it is just as possible for me as it is for my sixteen-year-old counterparts.Now here is where we go into the grey area of the subject as I see it. For what appears to be the majority of the vocal folks on the subject, an erection for an adult male indicates something of a sexual nature. Similarly, there seems to be a vocal majority regarding sexual predators of children, and despite evidence to the contrary the overriding message is that strangers are dangerous. Having grown up in an era where I was a child warned by parents and teachers to be weary of people offering candy (yes, I watched the information videos on “stranger danger”), this has been a subject I’ve kept up with, and thus far the vast majority of cases find that the perpetrator was someone who the child knew, usually family.So now I’ve beaten around the bush for a couple paragraphs. To get to the point, I believe the reason erections are such a hot debate in this lifestyle is because of paedophilia. Or rather, the paranoia among the vocal majority. Worst would be an act that violated a child. Beside that, the next worst case scenario is the crude individual who is making no effort to hide that their masturbation is directly correlated to the presence of nearby children, relegating them in the individual’s mind as fantasy fuel, sexual objects for their gratification. Where this dark subject becomes fuzzy is in the realm of paranoia. Given that the evidence shows it is more often family members who do something horrible, there is a horrible twisted and shadowy road that people in the naturist lifestyle will travel in their minds. At the brightest end of the road is the adult stranger nearby who is visibly aroused, and the other adult person who wonders if perhaps they are the cause of the arousal (they might be insulted or amused if confirmed, depending on their personal morals). The far less bright place further down the road is the nudist/naturist/clothesfree family gathering where an adult is visibly engorged, and at the same time there are children present. Nobody is going to ask if the children are the cause of the arousal, though the question will linger in the back of minds. We know as humans that genetically we are physically programmed to display our physical ability to procreate at puberty, and likewise from the age of puberty we are genetically programmed to recognize the signs in each other. It is genetically ordinary for a legal child to be biologically adult in the aspect of sexual fertility and genetic messages that any human who sees the indications will recognize. Everybody knows that nobody is blind to this. Socially, morally, I do not condone an adult to pursue biology, we have no place for that in society.

To one level or another males are aware (perhaps correctly, perhaps not) that their erections are regarded as equivalent to a sexual comment, a come-on. When someone asks him to cover the erection he will do so, because given how he himself will fear people will suspect what he’s thinking in the privacy of his own head, he will not want to do anything that might lend any value to the tiniest sliver of suspicion, even if it is at the bright end of the road where the suspicion would be complimentary. Regardless of what really did cause the erection, be it sexual thoughts or simply anatomy running a system test, the reasonable request will be accepted, because we have such a dismal outlook as humans. We suspect each other of thinking horrible thoughts, and we suspect each other of suspecting.

There, now I’ve laid bare (pardon the pun) what I believe to be the problem with penises in our lifestyle.

In my ideal world, the vast majority of humanity is more mature, the unnamed ugliness that folks cannot explain ceases to exist as as stain on any sexuality, all contact is by consent, and even masturbation is nothing other than a compliment. My ideal world does not exist. Until such time as it does (I do not expect to see such in my own lifetime), I will establish an agreement with the world, though not all will agree wholeheartedly. I will not masturbate in your presence unless you request it (even then I require that we’ve been intimately acquainted for quite some time), and when asked to conceal an erection I will do so if it is the result of sexuality; In the case where the erection is not as a result of sexuality, I will explain as much, and politely but firmly refuse to conceal my anatomy. The authority of the venue is entitled to repeat the request, at which time I will likewise explain that sexuality is not the cause of the erection, but will cover or otherwise conceal my anatomy because of my respect for the authorities that make such venues possible to exist.

Above all else, I want this made clear. Yes, my penis is useful in sex. So are my hands, feet, hips, lips, and more. My gonads are chiefly responsible for the production of sperm, and my penis chiefly responsible for delivery of said sperm, for this is their biological purpose. However, inter-personally my genitals are sexual when I decide them to be. An erection does not necessarily indicate that I am sexually active at that moment. So please, as has been asked of females’ breasts and has been asked of all erect nipples, please do not put your sexual hangups on my penis, thank you.

_________________________________________________

So there you go, make of it as you will.  I think it’s fair to say that most of the folks involved here aren’t terribly concerned about either the presence of an erection nor the reasons for it at a nudist event, and understand that they just happen.  However, most do feel that they should be ‘dealt with’ in some way, mainly because others expect it.  

At least that’s what I get out of it.  What do you think?  Are there any conclusions that can be made from this discussion?