What’s More Fun – Swimming or Painting Naked Girls?

The American Association for Nude Recreation (AANR) is promoting this year’s headline publicity event for Nude Recreation Week as one big naked body painting party.  The idea, still in the planning stages, essentially will have clubs and venues holding their own parties on  July 14 then submitting photos (that mainstay of social nudism; pics of naked people!) to AANR  for judging.  One can assume that AANR will then release the winning photos to the news media to demonstrate the ‘wholesome family friendly’ nudist lifestyle.  At this time, The Naturist Society (TNS) has announced no plans to participate.

Of course, the media will only be able to use edited or airbrushed pics.  Kind of like the sexy photos the public is so used to seeing associated with nudity of any kind.

We’re not so sure that promoting the naturist lifestyle as wholesome is best accomplished by presenting it to the general public as a naked body painting party, but we’re kind of old fashioned that way.  And just a bit cynical.  AANR must feel that  this will appeal to the more adventurous textiles who can certainly see the fun in painting naked girls!

Now, that doesn’t mean we see anything wrong with body painting.  We are only concerned with the image that the public will take away from this.  When you hear ‘naked body painting’, what do you think of first, family activities or something somewhat more sexy?  Can you picture a naked middle-aged man painting a child’s naked body as anything other than a questionable activity?  Maybe we can but will a textile public that sees everything done in the nude as sex also see it as innocent and ‘family oriented’?

It had seemed to us that the previous Nude Recreation Week Guinness Book skinnydip events could be a great way to coordinate publicity and participation worldwide as  a means of bringing social nudism before the public eye in a positive way.  How better to show how easy it is to get naked around other folks, if only for a few minutes in a fun environment?  Not as much fun as finger-painting a nude woman (and you know that’s the image that comes to mind!) though.  It’s easy to see how this event could attract a lot of attention; let’s hope that it’s the right kind of attention!

One non-nudist wrote about her experience at a skinnydip and while it doesn’t sound like we got a convert, she makes a good point that may appeal to others: “…the purpose…first and foremost is to force myself out of my comfort zone, to have little adventures, to experience all that life has to offer.  Well, I’ve lived to tell the tale that visiting a nudist resort is one way to achieve that!”  The comments following her article further present social nudism as a positive, healthy experience; definitely not sexy at all.  Isn’t that exactly what’s needed to combat the negative images so often presented elsewhere?

However, it’s not for us to decide how AANR  promotes its main product ( membership).  Nudists/naturists benefit from healthy AANR membership numbers and those have been falling, so perhaps drastic measures to drum up publicity, any publicity, that will get AANR’s name out there are justified in the long run if will help boost membership dues.  If this doesn’t do the trick, maybe next year it could be tattoos, followed by piercings!  As long as we’re promoting the activities of a small minority of nudists as fundamental parts of naturism, why not?  As long as it gets attention, right?

Still, somehow the idea of portraying nudists as body painting enthusiasts (something that few nudists OR textiles are) does not fit well with the idea that nudists are just ordinary folks who happen to like being nude.  It makes us appear much more exciting and adventurous (and touchy?) than most of the nudists we’ve known, anyway.   That may help to diminish the public perception that we’re all old fuddie-duddies, but let’s hope that it doesn’t make us appear too wild in the process!

JOIN AANR today! Click HERE!

But you know what?  We have AANR to thank for a lot of the things we take for granted as we go about our naked day.  We can accomplish more by joining and helping direct the organization than we can by complaining.  So start practicing your body painting technique and who knows, maybe next July you’ll find yourself pictured on a national cover in all your naked glory…censored, of course!

Skinny Dipping into the Guinness Book of World Records

Even the Brits get into it:  Britain’s National Trust Sets World Record

2010 AANR Skinny Dip Results

History of The Naturist Society  (including the origins of Nude Rec. Week)

AANR’s Amazing Canvas Nudist Face and Body Painting Event   2012

AANR’s Amazing Canvas Nudist Face & Body Painting Event

UPDATE:  Be sure to read the comments below for some other opinions!  ‘Chet’, incidently, is also ‘Nudiarist’ among other aliases.  That will make it easier to follow.  He also wrote the following essay on his website; apparently he did’t have enough space for his silly insults here.  Go ahead and try to follow it all if you care, it’s really no big deal.  ‘Chet’ is still mad that we criticized his nudie galleries a few years ago as being unbecoming to a ‘nudist’ website.  No sense of humor and doesn’t read very well either.  Skips words and makes assumptions, usually wrongly, then rants about the imagined assumption.  Such a waste of an otherwise smart guy!

All Nudist, All Wrong - by ‘The Political Naturist’

Other sites produced by ‘The Political Naturist’ (he really, really likes to look at naked people, it appears):  

24 Responses

  1. You should also check out the page for the Florida Young Naturists who include body painting among their routine activities. http://www.floridayoungnaturists.com/default.html

  2. Sure they do, Chet, and it’s a lot of innocent fun. Many places include body painting nowadays as part of their activity schedules, but it is not an intrinsic part of enjoying life in the nude, nor is it practiced by most nudists. Some venues have jello wrestling, mud wrestling, and lingerie nights as well, but to use them as advertisements for the nudist lifestyle would be disingenuous at the least, and downright misleading in actuality.

    As stated in the article, our personal feelings as to the appropriateness of this is not relevant; how the textile public perceives it is. No healthy textile male will think of family values first when confronted with the prospect of getting to paint a naked woman, and first impressions are the ones that remain long after the retractions and clarifications are made.

    The object of Nude Rec. Week is to expose the general public to the idea that social nudism is a clean-cut, wholesome activity practiced by decent, ordinary folks. Well, decent ordinary folks do not smear paint on naked girls, not in the eyes of textile world anyway. We happen to feel that this was not well thought through in AANR’s zeal to promote recreational nudism to a skeptical society.

  3. Admin: Chet – Since you were unable to make these comments all at once, I’ve collected them together here:

    This is going to be a wholesome, family event. Crayola even makes face and body paints specifically for children. Your assumptions about this event are simply wrong.

    The problem with many nudists is that they are stuck in some mindset that nudists and naturists are somehow not allowed to have fun and express themselves like much of the rest of society. Petanque tournaments and pot luck dinners are not the sort of activities that most people find fun.

    Andy Golub paints nude models right out in the open in Times Square. The body painting in Sports Illustrated is not even considered nudity.

    Public events such as Comfest in Columbus Ohio, The Fremont Solstice Parade, and the World Naked Bike Ride all include body painting. There are body painting festivals worldwide, and there’s even a magazine devoted to the art.

    As final evidence, I submit to you this link which shows that body painting is done at Bare Oaks Park in Canada, run by Stephane Deschanes who is one of the strictest naturists that I can think of. His podcast is consistently true to naturist philosophies, and he is a constant defender of the lifestyle against exploitation. http://www.bareoaks.ca/social/minutes/minutes_090829.shtml

    You are incorrect when you compare this to jello wrestling. Where does that come from? Body painting is a very mainstream nudist activity, it’s been done at my club Cedar Trails in Ohio, and it is part of all the Naturist Society gatherings. Morley Schloss at Sunsport Gardens includes body painting at his youth camps. The Florida Young Naturists, Young Naturists America, Vita Nuda and other youth groups all include body painting activities.

    This is a face and body painting event. Your insinuation that this is not for “decent, ordinary folks” is a blatant smear on your fellow nudists and naturists. Body painting might not be “intrinsic” to the naturist philosophy, but it’s a natural activity for people who like to be nude and are not ashamed of their bodies. There is little difference between painting one’s body or putting on a sexy bikini or Speedo on a public beach. It’s just silly to think of this as somehow contrary to naturist values, especially since it’s done all the time at so many events and venues of clubs affiliated with AANR and The Naturist Society

    You did not publish my original comment.

    You have completely misrepresented this event, and your words are irresponsible. This is not about “smearing paint on naked girls”, just as nudist events and venues are not magnets for exhibitionists and pedophiles.

  4. Judging from your heated and inaccurate comments, I can only conclude that either you are being deliberately obtuse and contentious because of my years-ago comment about your nudie photo sites…or you didn’t bother to even read the article. At no point did I imply that there is anything wrong with nude body painting at nudist venues, let alone suggest that nudists are anything less than decent people. I maintained that the TEXTILE PUBLIC could easily see it that way since that’s how they are orientated to view nudity, especially when combined with children. Try reading all the words this time instead of skimming for something to complain about.

    And you may be surprised to find out that most nudists do not belong to landed clubs and camps where organized activities of any kind are the norm, nor do they generally paint themselves as part of their nude activity. They simply avail themselves of the opportunity to get naked and enjoy themselves. Body painting is not representative of that lifestyle, and it may not be such a good idea to suggest that it is. Obviously you disagree, as you do about nudie picture websites. They, of course, are not part of the nudist lifestyle per se either, though many nudists such as you do obviously enjoy looking at naked people.

    Nothing wrong with that, either. But I sure wouldn’t promote it as ‘what nudists do’!

    Re: “You did not publish my original comment.” Wrong again.

  5. Hi, my name is Tom Mulhall. I am the PR chairperson for AANR.

    I always wonder why people right away think the worst about new events and ideas? Don’t forget TNS decided not to join in the skinny dip when invited.

    The Kansas State fair on their site says face painting is one of the most popular booths at their fair. Children LOVE it. Face painting parties are extremely popular at children’s bday parties. So you are wrong when you say textiles do not do face painting.

    The Crayola Crayon company even markets face and body painting kits to families.

    AANR is talking about body painting of HUMANS, not just women, but men and women.

    You yourself quoted the woman about the skinny dip saying, “the purpose…first and foremost is to force myself out of my comfort zone, to have little adventures, to experience all that life has to offer. Well, I’ve lived to tell the tale that visiting a nudist resort is one way to achieve that!”

    If The Kansas State fair can handle face painting, I think so can AANR members..

    Thanks, Tom

  6. Tom, with all due respect, you do see the difference in the textile public’s eye between painting flowers on a kid’s face at a street fair and painting their naked bodies at a private party full of naked adults, don’t you? Is Crayola marketing their kids paints for use on each other’s genitals? Do they even suggest it? Why not, it’s harmless, isn’t it?

    The reason people always ‘think the worst’ is because that’s what they see on the news every day, and unfortunately some activities send up alarms whether they deserve to or not. AANR’s eventual press releases about this year’s event will undoubtedly be spun by some to stress naked adults and children, not to mention the usual comments about pedophile nudists (yes, that nudist resort story will surface again) and how safe children really are around all those ‘strange’ people. What kind of parent, they’ll ask, would let their nude child even be around naked adults, let alone be painted by them? Many will see it that way, you know.

    Because of that, mental images of naked body painting are sure to give an entirely wrong impression of what social nudism (and AANR) is all about. Considering how careful the nudist community is to present a squeaky-clean image to the public (though we know it’s far from squeaky), it seems irresponsible to promote social nudism in any way that could possibly be misinterpreted by those who are already predisposed to do so.

    ‘Skinny-dipping’ harkens back to an imaginary gentler era when sex was kept ‘in its place’ (LOL!) and a dip in the pond was seen as harmless fun. The textile public can understand this. Naked body painting has no such innocent history to bring to mind; but does invoke some interesting possibilities to those who know nudity only as sexual.

    We disagree on this mainly, I believe, because I’m a cynical old bastard who has seen much of the worst in folks, and see our lifestyle slandered and defamed daily by those who would see us cleansed from this planet. The term ‘nudist’ is more often connected to sexual activity than it is nudism, and even within our nudist community there are those who would broaden the definition to include behavior which has previously been avoided like the plague. Angie and I have to be careful even hugging at a nudist resort for fear of breaking rules of non-sexual behavior!

    If you Google ‘skinny dipping’ you’ll find some things relating to, well, skinny dipping and maybe a little naturism. Google ‘body paint’ and you get a lot of painted bodies, but no connection to healthy wholesome naturism. That will change when ‘AANR’ pops up in searches for pics of naked painted women, right between “12 Sexiest Body Painting Clothes & Underwear – Oddee.com” and “Fantasy Fest full body painting (Contains Nudity 18+ ) Photo Gallery” perhaps.

    Is that really where we want folks to hear about AANR and social nudism? Is that how we want to portray what the nudist lifestyle is mainly about?

    We have dealt with the subject of body painting here on our website, plus other pastimes that some nudists enjoy in an effort to show that nudists comprise a wide variety of people. We are careful though to emphasize that these are individual choices, not ‘standard’ nudist behavior. The textile world will see no such disclaimer when presented with “AANR: Nudists Like to Paint Each Others Naked Bodies!” as a headline.

  7. Whatever makes you happy, as long as it does not hurt anyone else, SO DO IT, I love the painting, i love to be painted and i love to paint.

  8. I’ll leave the arguments over the merits of body painting to others as I find some merit in both camps. I will say that the end result of body painting can be a truly wonderful bit of art.

    I choose to focus on this statement towards the end of the post:
    “But you know what? We have AANR to thank for a lot of the things we take for granted as we go about our naked day. We can accomplish more by joining and helping direct the organization than we can by complaining”. That in a nutshell is why I will be seeking reelection to my third term as an AANR-East Director.

  9. Agree with you about AANR, and if we didn’t care we wouldn’t give a hoot what the group does. We also want it to be successful and feel constructive criticism is valid when called for. Those folks sitting up there in the big chairs at AANR don’t always see all aspects of a situation, and we feel free to point these things out occasionally. No malice is intended, though misunderstandings may make it appear so.

    The relative merits of body painting and/or its appropriateness as a nudist activity are immaterial to this discussion, which some folks seem to be missing. The only concern we have is the perception that the textile public will get when confronted by a ‘questionable’ (in their eyes) group of people advertising that naked body painting parties (including children) are representative of social nudism.

    There is so much more to our lifestyle that it seems shortsighted to use an example which will undoubtedly raise questions which will then need to be addressed from a defensive posture. Worse, many will form their impressions immediately but never learn of their error. These potentialities could have been avoided by choosing a less debatable nudist pastime in the first place. That’s all we’re saying.

    Good luck on that third term. You’re a straight-shooter and your head is in the right nudist place; AANR and all of us need to keep you around for a while!

  10. Hi All Nudist,
    Tom again. Some people think of me being the AANR PR chairperson as one of those “folks sitting up there in the big chairs at AANR don’t always see all aspects of a situation.”

    First being 5’9″, I don’t need a big chair, a regular sized chair would do just fine, thank you very much. Next, owning a resort, I am out there on the firing line everyday of the week. So I see forest and the trees.

    Many people are hung up on the naked human body no matter what we say and do. Last week facebook got into trouble for deleting breast feeding photos. And they had gotten into trouble before by deleting groups about breast cancer, how to properly feel for breast lumps, and breast cancer survivors.

    Whatever AANR does, someone won’t like it. Remember when Mark Foley tried to prevent AANR Youth camps in Florida and then was caught sending sexually expicit e-mails to underage pages. As Shirley Mason of Haulover Free Beach said “If you see evil in everything, chances are there’s evil within you,” Mason said.

    Doing a little more research, I have seen the Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, and New York state fairs all have face and body painting booths. I am sure I will find more if I spent more time looking.

    Harvey Milk once said, “We will not win our rights by staying silently in our closets.” Nudists have to come out. If textiles can do face and body painting at state fairs, so can nudists.

    And as far as winning AANR prizes, it is limited to artists and bodies, 18 and over. No local clubs can have their own local prizes for kids categories if they like.

    If nudists want nudism to be seen as mainstream, we need to demand that we be treated that way too.

    Thanks,

    Tom

  11. Steve, with all due respect, you claim no malice, yet you illustrate your “essay” with photos that do not illustrate the event. You say that the “appropriateness” of body painting is immaterial, yet you also clearly state that body painting “is not representative of that lifestyle, and it may not be such a good idea to suggest that it is”.

    You also conveniently overlook the fact that this is a “face and body painting” event, and that children are NOT included in the national competition. Plus you have not mentioned that you promoted and attended a Badger Naturists Halloween Party which included body painting, plus photos were posted on the website. I did not hear you opposing that promotion of body painting as being unacceptable.

    Those folks that you accuse of “sitting in the big chairs” are mostly people like me who volunteer and work hard to make things happen. You assume that AANR is going to promote this as an event where men get to paint naked women, an oversimplification and distortion which is irresponsible. Your comments on this fun event are far more damaging than the event itself, because you are misrepresenting the intent and spirit of what we are trying to do.

    The Naturist Society and just about all of its clubs have openly promoted body painting. Morley Schloss at Sunsport Gardens has photos of children with body painting on his website. The mainstream media has photos and stories on body painting all the time – it’s an accepted art form.

    So you think that promoting body painting is questionable? Then why have you promoted it so enthusiastically in the past, like here https://allnudist.wordpress.com/2009/05/15/naked-in-paint-latex/, including links to companies that sell the paint?

    And I particularly like what you said: “It’s all pretty silly, but reminds us that with all the problems this world has, some people will always find something to complain about”

  12. Hi Tom. My reference to ‘the big chairs’ was figurative, not literal. A group at AANR makes these decisions based on the limited perspectives they hold and they sometimes don’t see the whole picture. An example would be the recent ‘Nudist Bill of Rights’ which included wording that some folks found to be non-inclusive and offensive. Upon hearing about these objections from myself and others (like this one, who thoroughly trashed it) AANR reworded the Bill. You recognized that you had not seen it as it appeared to others. AANR was also apparently unaware (or did nothing) of the goings-on at the AANR affiliated Lupin Lodge until it was brought to their attention (though the Lodge still carries the AANR logo…). There are many examples of this; if you need more just go to The Political Naturist where you will find plenty of criticism of AANR and every other naturist organization. Nobody’s perfect but we can learn from others if we pay attention.

    You folks in the ‘big chairs’ cannot possibly be aware of everything going on in the world, and some who are especially isolated from the textile world, such as long-time nudist resort owners, may become so immersed in the nude life that they forget how the public looks at things. Many long-time nudists come to feel that our lifestyle is so normal and natural that they forget how it appears to others; Angie and I see that all the time and, even ourselves, often forget what social pariahs nudists are.

    That’s why what seems so innocent to you will not appear so to textiles. They already ‘know’ that nudism is about sex; this will reaffirm that belief whether you specifically include children or not. Nothing you say will change that opinion after it’s formed, and the fact that you will have to defend it (even here, to nudists!) demonstrates that it was a poor choice in the first place. Your inability to see the potential problems further demonstrates your isolation from textile thinking and how they will view naked body painting parties.

    ‘Assume the worst’ is what many will do, and comparing it to face painting or clothed body painting misses the point. People do a lot of things clothed that are also done in the nude; swimming, hiking, dancing, eating, working, bicycling, jogging, sports… none of which automatically brings up sexual ideas in the textile mind. Dancing, maybe. So why pick something that can raise eyebrows when so many other nudist activities are available? Because it’s sexy and attracts attention? Seeking younger members? Why else ask for trouble?

    “American Association for Nude Recreation…nudists…naked body painting parties…” It would be hard to come up with a combination of headline words which would incite more interest, and misconceptions, than that combination. Unless, perhaps, you include ‘children’ in the mix (which will inevitably be brought up by someone).

    You really don’t see the problem? Really? Or is it simply that a mistake was made and now must be defended, no matter what? Nudist politics? Pride?

    This returns us to the premise that the well-meaning people that chose nude body painting as this year’s shining example of nude living are somewhat out of touch with the textile mind and can’t even conceive of any problem. We’ve pointed it out and you’ve chosen not to see, but we’ve done our job as described in our site introduction; just sharing news of the nudist world and expressing our opinion.

    AANR has done its job; presenting the nudist community as naked body painting partiers.

    Re: Gay rights (which have nothing to do with a choice of lifestyles, like nudism) – Harvey Milk got killed for his efforts by those who didn’t ‘get’ it, and public promotion of marginal and possibly ‘uncomfortable’ aspects of gay behavior didn’t win them equal rights or acceptance. It was the efforts of the many who demonstrated to society that gays are just ordinary folks too who mainly go about their day like everyone else that impressed straight society and helped overcome the distorted vision provided by movies, preachers, stereotype and tradition.

    People fear differences, and the way to overcome that fear is not by highlighting those differences but rather than by highlighting similarities. Textiles simply cannot reconcile naked body painting parties with anything in their lives, especially children’s face painting. Making a comparison between the two is a mistake and shows them how different (ie; scary) nudists really are if they think they’re the same. ‘Ordinary’ people do not paint each other’s naked bodies unless sex is involved; that’s how the public sees it.

    I don’t remember; were nude body painting parties, such a representative part of nudism, even mentioned when you were on that doctor TV show? Or lingerie parties? Or nude massages? These are all things which occur at AANR clubs and quite respectable. That would have been a great place to show the world how we are just like everyone else! But no, you were too busy presenting a good, honest idea of what nudism is really about, not looking for something exciting to give an audience full of skeptics prepared to laugh at you and all you represent. What do you think Jerry Springer would have done with naked body painting as a topic?

    Well, if nothing else, this dialog will give you some practice defending these ‘orgies’ (in the public’s mind) when others come to you with questions. You think we’re looking for problems just to complain; you are mistaken. If we have these questions, you’d better believe that those opposed to nudism sure will too!

    Glad to be of some help!

  13. The respect is mutual, I’m sure. :-)

    The illustrative photos are: A textile’s image of a body-painted nude woman; An example of the type of sexy nudity the public is accustomed to; A photo of a previous skinny-dipping event; A photo of what average real nudists look like when they’re not painting each other. You know, ordinary stuff. The AANR logo enables folks to easily join AANR and make a difference. There are, of course, no photos available for an event which hasn’t happened yet. At the bottom is AANR’s pic supplied with their notice of the event, attractive nude painted butts, average nudists (?). Which of those is not representative of issues mentioned in the article?

    AANR: “Entries of best amateur and best professional bodypainting from each location will be sent to AANR for judging…” Nothing there about children being included or excluded, but AANR has always made it clear that nudist activities and are ‘family friendly’ so it may be assumed,(and it will be assumed) that children are included. Are they not going to be allowed to participate? If they are, will they be allowed to paint each other? Will they paint grownups? Can grownups paint them? Is finger-painting allowed? Do adults paint each other? Are certain body parts off-limits? Why, if it’s so innocent? Why not, if it’s so innocent?

    Do you think that those opposed to, or unsure about, social nudity won’t think to ask these questions? I know that you are personally immersed in the nudist world and contribute to it through your (excellent) writing and other involvements, but surely you must realize that textiles do not see things the same way as nudists. To them, anything related to nudity means sex, and naked body painting sounds sexy as hell to them. So that means that nudism is sexy too, right?

    You folks in the ‘big chairs’ sure are touchy about your positions! As I told Tom, it was just a rhetorical reference like ‘Top Dogs’, ‘Head Hochos’, or ‘The Big House on the Hill’, nothing more and certainly not derogatory.

    I never said that AANR will promote this as a sybaritic event; I said that it could be perceived as such by a public already disposed to do so. “Your comments on this fun event are far more damaging than the event itself…”. ‘More‘ damaging? Do you see what you just said? More damaging? As if the event itself is already damaging? My point exactly.

    As far as nude body painting itself is concerned, though that is not any part of this discussion, our opinion is not relevant. It is the public’s perception that counts when our largest national organization uses one of its biggest promotional opportunities to say, “Hey! Be a nudist and you, too can paint on naked people!” If you cannot see the difference between that and “Hey! Be a nudist and you, too can go skinny-dipping!” then you are seriously out of touch. The textile public knows the difference, in their minds, between swimming and group body painting parties. To them, Boy Scouts skinny-dip; swingers get naked together in groups and paint each other’s bodies.

    As long as we’re discussing irrelevant issues, we like body painting and have made no secret of it, so you’re not exactly breaking news here. Is it an appropriate activity for nudists within the nudist environment? That’s a question that involves a lot of other nudist issues and is best left up to individual places and clubs. Kind of like Lupin Lodge apparently felt that Hound and Dog games are appropriate nudist activity. And why not? Neither, however, is a necessary or even important aspect of the nudist lifestyle and doesn’t deserve to be promoted as such, especially when it raises so many questions better left unasked.

    The Badger Naturist party? It was Halloween and some folks painted themselves for costumes. Some were not so pleased with that. Some friends of ours painted parts of themselves as a carrot and a hungry rabbit, funny as hell; some were not so pleased with that. So what’s your point? What some see as just fine, others see as questionable or on the borderline of what social nudism is not. Should aspects of social nudism which are not even agreed upon even among nudists be used as poster children to a hostile public?

    As a community, through AANR among others, we decide how to define ourselves as nudists and what is an acceptable part of nudism, whatever ‘nudism’ means, then project that image to the public. Many groups of people are advancing their own agendas as as to what they think mainstream nudism should include, and that’s just fine for the evolution of the lifestyle. But there’s a point somewhere where the activity stops being a valid part of social nudism and becomes something else. Do we want to promote those aspects of nudism that are a bit farther from basic nudism as important to mainstream nudists? Is that why people become nudists – so they can get painted naked?

    Drinking is included in many nudist activities too, though also not necessary to have a good nude time and is by itself totally unrelated to naturism. Should we promote drinking parties as a national event because some nudists drink and it’s ok with AANR? Is that an aspect of nudism to promote? Nothing wrong with it and everybody does it, even textiles!

    Naked body painting appears to have been accepted by the commercial nudist community, that part which relies on revenue to survive. It attracts younger folks, is fun for the kids, adults enjoy painting each other’s parts, and everybody has a good time! It’s also controlled and has rules; we know that. The public doesn’t.

    I knew you’d like that part about ‘easy to complain’, The Political Naturist is a Master at that!

  14. A lot of words, Steve, yet you say very little. The bottom line here is that you have deliberately misrepresented this event, making assumptions and drawing conclusions without knowing all the facts. A simple phone call to AANR would have been a common courtesy, but you chose simply to attack instead. Your blog is full of references to swingers, sex, penises, overtly sexual imagery, yet you have the audacity to accuse others of not being true to nudism. As I said, it is YOU who is doing the damage here, for whatever personal reasons, And who can forget your abusive response to a television producer who asked you a simple question https://allnudist.wordpress.com/2009/06/24/a-bizzare-e-mail/

    There’s a big difference between constructive criticism, and the type of vitriol you sell here. You refer to yourself as a “cynical old bastard”. All I ask of anyone reading these comments to take you at your world on that particular point.

  15. Hi All Nudist,
    I was teasing about the big chairs. I’m actually 5ft 9 1/2 inches tall, that’s why I can use an average sized chair. I like to think I have a sense of humor, but sadly I can’t convince lots of people that I do :-)

    The AANR PR committee is helping to lead the way into AANR being a much more open and transparent organization. I also think the new Exec Director Jim Smock will be moving us into this direction too.

    I was not involved with the original wording for the Nudist Bill of Rights, but upon learning of it, the PR committee helped craft new wording.

    I have always felt if you want to be treated mainstream you have to act that way. When we opened our resort 17 years ago in Palm Springs we were the first nudist resort that had a Chamber of Commerce mixer at our hotel. I was the first nudist leader to be elected President of a large Chamber of Commerce (1000 members), and I am on over Convention Visitor Auth Small hotel advisory committee. I remember Don who owned another place in Palm Springs called Le Petit Chateau got mad at me for joining the Chamber of Commerce because then “they” would know nudies are in Palm Springs.

    Social Nudists are NOT the social pariahs you think we are. Sure you will get small minded bigots that hate us, but then they hate everyone even their fellow bigots. They are the social outcasts. Or you will get sick people like Mark Foley in positions of power. But, we should not be hiding because of those people. We should demand to be treated the same as textiles. If the people at Haulover Beach never demanded to be treated fairly, Haulover would not exist today as a nude beach.

    Sorry, I disagree about your comments on gay rights. It was the Stonewall riot in NY in 1969 that galvanized gays to start to fight for their rights. Just like Rosa Parks in Dec 1955 refusing to sit in the back of a bus started to galvanize black rights. Textiles do body painting, so should nudists be able to do so too.

    Naturists can be afraid of the bogey man and many nudists are. Our toll free number is 800-Sunny-FUN I remember 17 years ago being yelled at by a naturist “leader” saying that naturism has nothing to do with fun, it is all about body acceptance and body freedom. And if I insist and saying it’s fun, well then the authorities will come and shut down all nudist resorts in America as they will be thinking we’re having fun at them. And of course you know what happened. The Government bogey men never showed up and now everyone says nudism is fun.

    By nature I am an optimist, I put my life long savings on the line with events like this if they backfire. Tom

  16. I used many words, to try to explain a simple concept to someone who does not understand simple things. Obviously more words are not enough make up for this shortcoming in one who clings so tightly to being obtuse.

    By ‘your blog’ are you (for a change) staying on-topic and referring to this particular article? Or are you referring to this blog in general where we discuss all elements of the nudist/naturist lifestyle and try to understand their place in that which we call social nudism? Not sure just where your flung mud is intended to land. No matter; it’s nonsensical.

    By a ‘simple phone call’ are you referring to those calls you make before misquoting folks on your website and making derogatory statements about others who have incited your wrath? Your attacks are entertaining, much like Fox News, and just about as responsible and well-sourced sometimes. I don’t think you need to be talking about credibility.

    Besides, AANR made the announcement and put it into the public realm for discussion, a little late for a phone call. And as we’ve seen, AANR stands by their decision to promote naked body painting over all other aspects of nudism as a way to engender good will among textiles. A phone call would have accomplished nothing.

    After the public announcement, we commented that we don’t think it’s such a great idea; you made the big deal over it. You are the one making it into a personal attack on us for expressing our reservations as to the public’s perceptions about a major campaign publicizing nudists having naked painting parties. With an attitude like that, if you represent AANR then no wonder AANR has such a myopic viewpoint of textile society.

    Yeah, I’m a cynical old bastard who has seen how misinformed the textile public is and how they see us. I read the articles in the news and online, and see people on TV. We live in the textile world and are surrounded by textiles and their twisted vision of social nudism. We don’t surround ourselves with sycophants who will agree with us simply because they want to believe it.

    Yeah, folks. Please do remember that when visiting this website. Don’t expect all pretty pictures of how we would like social nudism to be or perceived; expect to see it as it is, and to hear about what we can do to actually help make it what it should be.

    In the meantime, we will continue to spread our old-fashioned ideas about propriety at nudist venues (among other things) and to point out problems that we see. And we will also continue to recommend to folks that any so-called ‘nudist’ sites (like several of yours) that are nothing more than nudie picture galleries are most likely not really nudist but rather indicative of other, non-nudist agendas. They use ‘nudist’ or ‘naturist’ in a feeble attempt to ‘legitimize’ looking at naked pictures, as if there was something wrong with that in a non-nudist setting! How sad that some folks are so ashamed of their hobbies that they feel the need to tie them to a truly legitimate activity like social nudism to appear acceptable.

    Oops! Too many words again? How’s this instead, it will probably be just as ineffective: You’re wrong on all counts. Again.

  17. Tom, I’m glad to hear that as a businessman dealing with other businessmen (and women)you are treated as a businessman among businessmen should be. However, your contact with those who are essentially required by social custom to treat you civilly is no more indicative of ‘acceptance’ by the textile public at large than is the courteous behavior we all exibit in the presence of those we despise. For instance,when was the last time you spat upon someone who surely deserved it?

    Your optimistic view of the world is wonderful and I can see why you want to believe it is true. If you actually knew what those ‘friends’ you deal with really thought about you and your lifestyle it wouldn’t be nearly as much fun being around them! Sure, some may understand completely (unlikely) but the rest will run the gamut from not caring to expecting lightning to strike you down any moment. Silence is not approval. Correct social behavior is not reality.

    We’ll have to disagree about gay or civil rights, or any other minority rights movement. All such successful attempts have been accomplished by the efforts of sympathetic members of the ruling majority on behalf of the minority, not through outrageous actions on their part. Similarly, nudists neede textile allies who see us as normal, as they see themselves. Surely you are not suggesting, as an AANR representative, that the excessive actions of those who flagrently violate the law in proclaiming their ‘right’ to be naked should be emulated by the membership and nudists in general! Is that going to demostrate our ‘normalcy’?

    Maybe it would. Following your ideas about disruptive public demonstrations and ‘mainstreaming’, perhaps Nude Day should be marked by massive nude protests in towns across America, with everyone waving AANR flags! That will show them who we are and why they shouldn’t fear us!

    Or maybe not. Instead, just tell them that if they become nudists they can paint each other naked, and leave the rest to their imaginations. Then they’ll understand what social nudism is all about and want to join right in!

    You’re a good guy, Tom. Maybe too good. Optimism is a great thing but it can also be a drawback if it obstructs reality. If you’re concerned about your investment then I’d suggest you bounce these promotional ideas off a few unfriendly non-nudists in the future and get some idea of how they will be received. This one will do us no good, but probably little harm either. The textile world hardly knows we exist and only hears about us through titillating headlines.

    Like this one: “America’s Largest Nudist Organization Sponsors Nationwide Naked Body Painting Party!” I can hardly wait to read the comments that will accompany these news stories.

    I’ve said about all I can, and then some. You don’t agree, that’s fine. Good luck with this and perhaps organizations around the world will join in, as they did with the highly successful skinny-dipping events in the past.

  18. Hi All Nudist,

    I was ELECTED President of the Palm Springs. I was NOT appointed. That means the business community approved of me. I received if I remember right almost 75% of the vote. Of course there were people who don’t like nudists and me, who didn’t vote for me, but then you can’t please everyone, can you?

    The crabby old guys voted for the other 2 candidates running against me, but then as you know, I have never done good job of convincing crabby old guys to see the light.

    Even more amazing, I am pretty much a Democrat in a Republican town, and was still overwhelmingly elected.

    And worse yet, since I’m a CPA, I was the most scariest candidate ever running against republicans, I’m a fiscally conservative, socially liberal Democrat. I’m the most hated of ALL people by republicans. Yet, I kicked their butts in the election.

    As an AANR Representative, I agree with the WNBR and other venues to promote nude recreation.

    Sorry, my gay friends and dead brother (Aids) disagree with you 100%. They did the work for gay rights, they convinced people to treat them mainstream. Lame stream people got on the bqand wagon later.

    I agree, we need textile allies.

    The skinny dip will come back next year in the 5th anniversary, I greatly support it. However the press was bored with the 3rd and 4th year, thus no skinny dip last year or this year.

    So what would be your big, PR event this year, since we can’t do the skinny dip. Please let everyone know!

    Finally, thanks for calling me a good guy. I really am.

    I am NOT concerned about my investment as I have the 2nd highest occupancy rate of ALL hotels in Palm Springs and received the award by Palm Springs Life Magazine for best small resort of ALL small resorts in our area. We are the ONLY nudist vacation resort in Palm Springs (other places are only weekend getaways). So we are doing very well in this economy especially since nudists no longer are going to the over price places in Mexico or the Caribbean. And we always are converting textiles into becoming nudists.

    Tom

  19. I can’t decide whether the opening statement to your last comment earned my pity, revulsion, or perhaps equal measures of both.

    One can only hope that your views aren’t a reflection Wisconsin’s nudist community, or the state as a whole. I for one tend to avoid places where I find myself either despised or surrounded by people whose idea of civility is demonstrated by their ability to suppress what they perceive to be a natural reflex to spit upon their fellow man.

    Unlike you, It’s been my experience that people tend to be civil due to an innate sense of civility. Perhaps that’s just a California thing; however, I found Texans to be genuinely civil when I lived in that state also. If your experience has been to the contrary, you might consider running in less hostile circles.

  20. Please tell me that you’re not one of those, bless your heart, naive people who think that because the slaves were freed that they were considered equal; that when women got the vote their problems were over, or when gays came out of the closet and got some rights that all of a sudden everybody thinks being gay is just fine!

    If that’s the case, then it’s understandable that you would think that since nudist clubs aren’t raided anymore that the public not only tolerates nudists but actually approves of nudism. Obviously you haven’t been around this website or in contact with the real world very much. Oh yeah, California. Well shut my mouth, no wonder!

    Just kidding. Madison has been called the Berkeley of the Midwest since the 60′s; very liberal and hip. Bicycle capital of the world, dontcha know! And I was down there last winter with the rest of us commies protesting Walker’s takeover of our fair state. Gonna kick his ass out of office pretty soon if they don’t arrest him first.

    So no, we’re not some sort of provincial bumpkins surrounded by mean-spirited people. Well, yeah, get outside of Madison and Wisconsin is more like Kentucky than California, that’s for sure. You know, nigger jokes still go down well in those small towns. Ugh.

    But our take on the general public’s opinion of nudists and our lifestyle comes not only from personal experience (usually online, to be sure; folks always act nicer in person!) but from the fact the we spend a helluva more time researching nudist issues than most nudists do; comes with the territory having a nudist website. From newspaper articles, online publications, comment streams, forums, Facebook (etc), other nudist sites and nudisst we know around the world… lots of places to take the temperature of ‘normal’ society.

    Even just by seeing ads, commercials, TV programs, news stories – it all combines into an overall picture that show attitudes that haven’t changed a lot in recent years. More people are easier with the idea, but more bigots and just plain ignorant folks are born everyday.

    And there’s more but you get the idea. It’s easy when living in a sheltered environment to fall into believing what you want to believe. Angie and I have a hard time remembering to put clothes on when going outside sometimes, our nudity is so casual and ordinary! Then some poor schnook gets arrested because a neighbor peeked into his window and saw his weenie; then reality slams home.

    Almost daily we read about something like that, and occasionally post it on FB of G+ but theres too many to bother posting all of them; just the really dumb ones. When you read what the people have to say about it in the articles, then read the comments, you get a fast refresher course on how much actual hatred is out there. Worldwide. Almost as much as as between Tea Partiers and Liberals! Better example: Romney and Santorum! ;-)

    But seriously, everywhere you turn there’s the sly innuendos and outright laughter, the titters and oh-my-gods that accompany any mention of nudity, let alone social nudism, children and all.

    And the church websites! You’d think we crucified Christ.

    No Julius, sadly it’s out there hidden underneath the polite smiles and uncomfortable comments. It’s a joy to find folks who are ok with our nudism, as are our friends and family, but I’m sure that our friends have their own thoughts on the subject which they don’t share with us any more than we share what we really think about folks who believe in invisible gods and fairies. If we like the person, we’ll accept their foibles.

    So that’s what was meant when referring to ‘socially required’ acceptance vs real, inner acceptance. I doubt that any thinking nudist believes that we’ll ever be accepted or allowed to live our lives in the buff, but tolerance would allow for more freedom without arrest.

    We’re kidding ourselves if we think we are generally liked by the public at large just because nobody attacks us personally, just like any minority group that got it’s rights by forcing them from the ruling majority would be foolish to forget that they really aren’t wanted; they’re just tolerated since there’s no way to get rid of them. If we forget this important distinction between tolerance and acceptance we’re going to fool ourselves right into trouble sooner or later.

    Now, you still may not believe this, and that’s ok. Life is a whole lot better if you close your eyes to the nastiness out there, especially if it won’t affect you personally and there’s nothing you can do about it. But Angie and I cannot since we’ve seen it and see more everyday. It’s true that when you go looking for trouble you will find it. It’s also true that if you go out everyday looking for items of interest to nudists you will find the dirt along with the gems. Most nudist websites quietly bury these stories because it makes their readers uncomfortable. We report them because it’s important to nudists. We’re not selling, we have no advertisers to offend, we have no membership to upset, we have no resort or campground to fill, no customers of any kind. In short, have no incentive to promote a false image of social nudism in return for profit. We put out the truth as we see it and trust our readers to make up their own minds. Disagreement is fine; insults are not.

    Unfortunately, with worldwide membership declining, beaches being closed, nudist venues becoming swinger resorts, pedophile ‘nudist’ rings being discovered, stupid naked men scaring people, and more folks using the term ‘nudist for other ventures, it’s not pretty. Add a little world economic collapse and a return to a more conservative viewpoint by society (happens every time societies collapse) and it’s not such a great prospect for more acceptance of nudists. But we’ll keep trying.

    And that’s why we questioned using naked body painting parties as the prime example of why the textile public should stop fearing and start liking nudists. They already have their doubts about us, and naked body painting parties sounds like ‘way too much fun to be wholesome and sexless. We know better but they don’t know us. I cannot put it any more clearly than that. Either you see it or you don’t.

    Thanks for the comment! Look around and back a few years; you’ll probably find something else you disagree with. Hope so, otherwise we’re not doing our job; offering food for thought. – Steve

  21. Hmm, small world full of coincidences. Hours after we posted Chet’s (Nudiarist) babbling article defaming All Nudist on Facebook, along with a comment that he would probably retaliate against our FB page, Facebook received a complaint and removed the article! Amazing, isn’t it?

    Just a coincidence, I’m sure. Who would be so small, mean and petty to act that way? Certainly not the same person who had such bad things to say about us! Nah, couldn’t be. He’s too old for a tantrum like that. Right?

  22. Oh good grief – can Chet and Steve just get out a measuring tape and be done with it? Tongue in cheek – sort of.

    Steve and Tom – I’d love to be able to sit down in the same room together with the two of you. There’s so much to learn. In a sense I think you’re both right about the tactics and history of various civil rights movements. Civil disobedience tends to capture the attention and gain some sympathetic mind share amongst the mainstream and pull some secret sympathizers from the opposition. Without the level-headed efforts behind the scenes the new “movement” might never gain traction yet that civil disobedience may have been the catalyst. I don’t believe that either approach can lay sole claim to the ultimate victories.

    As for body painting it would probably wouldn’t have been my first choice but then I can’t really put my finger on a good alternative. We’ll know soon enough how it all plays out.

    Tom – it might not be a bad idea to do some “opposition research” in the future if you’re doing so already. I think I may have seen Steve’s hand go up to volunteer.

  23. Oh, stop being so balanced…bare! ;-)

  24. Clothesbegone, on the “opposition research” point, you should know that many people have been involved in the planning of the body painting event, and not once did anyone object in principle to the idea. And these are not insulated people, they are all on the front lines, from all over the USA, and even Canada.

    And who would have thought that Steve would ever have objected to body painting since he promotes it vigorously all the time, especially on Facebook, where he has a couple of links to body painters, even once exclaiming “Y’all know how much we love body painting!”.

    Even today, he is promoting the Mardi Gras event at the Terra Cotta Inn, which includes (you guessed it), body painting.

    I don’t mind that Steve is raising questions about the event, even though he has a consistent history of supporting body painting, What disturbs me is the completely distorted image of the event he has conjured up here. It’s simply irresponsible, and untrue.

Courteous behavior is expected; please stay on-topic. Thanks!

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s